How San Diego District Attorney Summer Stephan combats organized retail crime

Episode transcript, edited for clarity

[00:01:28] Bill Thorne: Welcome to Retail Gets Real, where we hear from retail's most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone, everywhere, every day. I'm Bill Thorne from the National Retail Federation. And on today's episode, we're talking to San Diego County District Attorney Summer Stephan.

[00:01:45] We're going to talk to Summer about organized retail crime, her role as district attorney and her message for those attending NRF PROTECT this year. Summer Stephan, welcome to Retail Gets Real.

[00:01:58] Summer Stephan: Thank you for having me. I love this group. Very excited to be with you.

[00:02:03] Bill: We appreciate everything that you're doing for the industry and the consumer. It's incredibly important that this issue is addressed. And to whatever resolve we can come to, we need to come to it, and the quicker the better.

[00:02:16] So let's get into it. What made you want to get into law? Did you ever think, well, I want to go into law and then I want to be a DA?

[00:02:25] Summer: Yes, I only went into law to become a DA. So I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to be part of law enforcement. I really felt very strongly that the way to make the community the best it can be is to make sure that children, adults, seniors, businesses, which are the heartbeat of America, are safe. Because that feeling of fear is something that sticks with you.

[00:02:53] And I've had the chance to meet people that are in their worst of times, and being able to bring justice, to bring them a feeling of safety, has been my life's journey for the last 35 years. So I was one of the lucky ones that went to law school knowing what I wanted to do, which was to become a prosecutor.

[00:03:15] Bill: This is a question I don't know that you're prepared for, but I do want to ask. You've done it for 35 years. Do you remember your first case?

[00:03:24] Summer: I do remember my first case. And the reason I remember it is because I was going to try my first case, and the law had just changed in California where DUIs had gone from a 1.0 to a 0.08. So it was the first case in the state where the line had been dropped.

[00:03:44] And I was there trying to figure out my way to the courtroom, trying this case, and just, going, "Really, really? I have to get the case when the law just changed and made it even harder for prosecutors?" But I can tell you that that was an indicator for the rest of my life. Everything I touch is not easy, but it makes it better when you get through it and you win some for the good guys.

[00:04:15] Bill: Yes, yes, yes. That's pretty good. So retail theft, organized retail crime. Now, how did you make that a focus for you and for your office, and how have experiences shaped your approach to those issues?

[00:04:29] Summer: Even though in my career I had focused on sexually based murders and crimes and had developed a human trafficking division and a sex crimes division and had really focused on those cases, when I became the DA, I talked to my community. I don't understand staying behind your desk. I'm used to visiting crime scenes. And so I view my community as something that I want to visit.

[00:04:57] And I started to hear from the retailers. I visited, I'll never forget this, this one perfume business that would sell perfumes. And the gentleman told me, “Look, I put everything into this business, but you see, I have the cheap perfumes in front and I have the expensive perfumes in the back. This is anti-marketing.

[00:05:20] You're supposed to put your expensive perfumes in front, so people are drawn to buying these beautiful perfumes. But I can't do that because I know I'm going to lose, but I don't want to lose that big. I know they're going to be stolen, but I would rather have the cheap perfumes stolen than the expensive perfumes, even though that's going to hurt me.” He showed me his video camera. He said, "This is my fourth video camera. Break it. They come in, and the law has no consequences."

[00:05:53] "The law has turned its back on me," he told me. And it broke my heart. And then I go to Home Depot and all these beautiful tools — I know from my husband, people like to pick up things they're going to buy. They want to feel it. They want to look at it.

[00:06:10] That's how people buy things. But to have these things locked up and all of that, I just knew something was wrong and that I wanted to be part of fixing it. Because after all, we're dealing with an industry that employs more people in America than any other industry. It is the definition of whether your community is going to thrive or not.

[00:06:35] And so I began to really focus on it, to bring together an organized retail theft team that understood that this wasn't something that's at the bottom of our priority list. This wasn't like, oh, that's economic loss. We don't worry about that. No, it's not just economic loss. It's jobs. It's people.

[00:06:58] It's also the feeling of feeling unsafe for both the employees, the customers, the businesses. And I just wasn't going to have it in my community. And we just wanted to put it on blast that you don't come to San Diego and do this. You are not getting away with it. And with our organized efforts, we began to bring businesses together, their security teams, their asset protection, our DAs, our law enforcement.

[00:07:29] And we literally would put videos up, tracking. Even if they hide their license plate, from one store we'd be able to see when they took off their plate, from another store we'd see the beginning of the story, and we put together this collage, really fun, where you're doing investigations on the spot.

[00:07:50] I know for me, my definition of fun is different. The medical examiner is one of my best friends. What can I say? So we put up the collage and then we go get them. And they thought they were going to get away with it. And that really started our businesses feeling like there is a solution, someone cares about me.

[00:08:15] And even that hope provided the ability for them to wait out. And then after that, we ended up passing a law. And I know you might want to mention it because as president now of the National DAs Association, I want all the states to consider the law that California, which is a fairly liberal state, passed by 68%.

[00:08:41] It shows you that people are sick of crime. They're sick of everything being locked up except the criminals that are taking it. So this law really has brought great hope, I think, in our region.

[00:08:56] Bill: I love that. I have not heard that before. And you're going to tell me, yeah, this has been a theme for a number of years, but lock up the thieves, not the product. That's absolutely the basis of everything. And you said it, like your husband, shopping is a tactile experience.

[00:09:12] You want to see, touch and smell. You want to feel the item. And we've, of course, have found that through the internet. People will go online. They'll find what they want, and then they'll go to the store, and they'll pick it up and they'll look at it and they'll say, "Oh yeah, this is exactly what I want."

[00:09:26] Whether they buy it from the internet company or they buy it in-store, that's another issue. But I think that it is incredibly interesting to me, the whole collage idea. Most of the organized retail crime groups, are they local-based, or are they coming in from other parts of the state?

[00:09:44] Summer: Us in San Diego, they're coming in mostly from LA and other parts. And it's really interesting because they have specialties. So there's some of these crews that specialize in high-end homes and home burglaries. Some specialize in big jewelry stores. Some will just get their list of items to buy.

[00:10:06] This is what I testified to, when I testified along your great vice president, David Johnston, in Congress last year on the big bill combating organized retail crime. I tried to explain how they are very organized, meaning, I used an example of somebody who was ripping off all the Sunglass Huts.

[00:10:30] How many sunglasses do you really need? Because, of course, the other side always argues this complete nonsense that, well, they need this item. They're poor. But that doesn't match the reality because they don't need 300 sunglasses. Not that theft is ever the right thing to do.

[00:10:51] I'm just saying that what is being painted for the people that oppose strong laws is this picture that is not the reality of the situation. It is an organized scheme. Now, sometimes they use what we call boosters, and the boosters are people who are homeless. They're drug addicts. They're down on their luck, and they give them a certain cash amount to go in and steal a certain product that then would be funneled to the fence, the higher up, funneled to the big organizer.

[00:11:29] We even have organizations that have cleaners, meaning they'll rebox everything. So it looks brand new and then it's resold online. So what happens is it's a win-win for the crooks because they create a reason for shoppers to go online. Because now when they go to stores, it's like a free-for-all. And then people go online and they're buying the stolen products and making more of a profit for those same organized criminals.

[00:12:04] And that's why we had to really become organized as law enforcement. And that's part of my role as the National DA president, is to bring the idea that if you don't prioritize retail theft and you don't have a sophisticated team that knows what they're doing and can really unravel the organization and the crimes, then you're not going to win this battle. Because they're becoming more organized. We, as law enforcement, need to meet the moment. And that's why we need the legislation that unites our information in one task force.

[00:12:43] Bill: So that would be the basis, I guess, of the law, the federal law, that you've been advocating for, is the ability to communicate, the ability to do the things that you were just talking about.

[00:12:54] Summer: Absolutely. For example, when we have terrorist threats, it goes into a database that we all feed into in order to make sure that we're looking at the information. We do that with many different aspects of the sophisticated crimes, but we don't do that with this crime that is rampant in all of the states that's really affecting the daily livelihood of the bloodline of our communities, which are small and large businesses, which most of them, of course, are members of NRF.

[00:13:30] And so it's really nice that you all have a voice under an organized, smart umbrella that then allows the advocacy for better laws, for better resources, for all our communities.

[00:13:45] Bill: Yeah. So can you share a story about any recent initiatives that you've had there in San Diego that you believe has had a significant impact on reducing the retail theft or ORC?

[00:13:59] Summer: One of the initiatives that has completely begun to bear fruit is the change in the law. So California was one of those states that decided on this madness where you can steal as many times as you want so long as it's under a certain dollar amount. It's always a misdemeanor, which is a citation, a book and a release.

[00:14:22] No deterrence, no consequences. So we used to have people with 24 theft cases. They're all misdemeanors. Some thieves bring a calculator and they're just under $950. Literally. It's madness.

[00:14:38] Bill: Is that a gun or a calculator? I'm not sure. It just doesn't make sense.

[00:14:42] Summer: But when they do bring a gun, we can get them for something a little more serious, thankfully, before the legislature does away with that. So now the law changed. So on your third time, no matter what the amount is, it's a felony. So immediately the law took effect December 18, it passed by 68%.

[00:15:02] We already filed hundreds of cases in San Diego, and these people have 12 prior convictions. This is their sole job, is to rip off your business. That's their job. That's how they wake up in the morning. And so we didn't want them to wake up as comfortably as they did before with the —

[00:15:23] Bill: With their calculator.

[00:15:24] Summer: Yes. So on day one of this, we trained all 5,000 police officers. San Diego's the fifth largest county, for perspective, in the United States. I have 1,000 amazing employees. So on December 18, police officer goes to arrest this long-time crook. The business calls and says, "Come, he's here again." So they come this time because it's not a misdemeanor anymore, and he starts arguing with the police officers.

[00:15:54] “It's not January 1st, Officer. I know about Proposition 36.” Because he didn't realize that propositions passed immediately and not in January. Because it's to show you that they are sophisticated, that this is not some person who is painted as just needing a slice of bread because they're so hungry. That's not what our businesses are facing.

[00:16:22] Bill: Yeah, it is an argument that drives me crazy given the idea that they're stealing because they can't afford the food to put on the table to feed their children. Or that the retailers, they're insured. Therefore, it's a loss of product. They get insured. They'll get the money back. And it's just a fallacy.

[00:16:37] It is a wrong-headed approach to trying to explain away something that is having such a major impact on communities, large and small. It's creating higher prices. It's creating a very unsafe environment, or at least the perception of an unsafe environment.

[00:16:54] I was in the CVS in my neighborhood, and I live in the District of Columbia, and I was checking out, and these people just ran out of the store, arms full of stuff. And everybody just stood there watching. I thought, how is this happening? It's outrageous.

[00:17:10] And so I think the citizenry, me and you and everybody else, we get it. We know what's happening, and we want it to be stopped. And maybe CORCA, the organized retail crime law that the Congress is considering, maybe that'll help. I hope it will, and we just need to get it done.

[00:17:31] Summer: Like I said, I testified with David Johnston. I just wrote a letter on behalf of the National DA’s Association supporting it. So that's the largest organization for prosecutors explaining its need. But I do want to say that it's important, I think, when you're looking at this big problem, to also deal with it on the local level.

[00:17:54] I'll make a couple of recommendations for everyone who's listening. For San Diego, some of the things that have worked is, I have a specific position, and that's Cameron Celeste for me, that works very closely with NRF, who's our Director of Business Economic Safety and Development.

[00:18:13] And he works with all of the businesses on how we can make their employees, their stores, more safe. What are the trends they're seeing? And funnels that information to the rest of the team. So think about having a liaison with your DA's office. Because after all, we are your public servants.

[00:18:34] And don't let them convince you otherwise. I don't think my colleagues in the National DA's Association, which are most of the electeds — sometimes it's not that they don't care, they just haven't heard from you. So while we wait for this law on a national level, still work on a local level to bring attention to what's happening, to the trends. Ask your local prosecutor's office, who's your public servant, your people's prosecutor, to protect your store, to prosecute.

[00:19:07] Bring your law enforcement together. Ask for a meeting. And your prosecutor. And you'll see immediate results because sometimes you don't have a prosecutor who's going to go out, maybe like I do, to the stores. But once you get the call, they're going to set up something and hear from you. You don't have to put up with it. You are part of our community, and you need to get our attention for law enforcement and prosecutors.

[00:19:38] Bill: I think about the things that our district attorneys are doing, our law enforcement are doing, and I'm heartened by the idea that they prioritize this, that this is important. And I think that the role that you play as the president of the District Attorney's Association is incredibly important.

[00:19:58] But do you find any pushback? When you're there, they're like, do you know how many murders and how many crimes and how many other things we have to deal with and where this falls in importance? Is there an education there that you have to do?

[00:20:09] Summer: I think that there is an element of education, especially for some of the areas that are really overwhelmed by violent crime. But I think what we advocate for, and we've built a lot of trainings around it, on what we do — I've had my team do trainings other offices have — is that it's interesting about crime, is in a moment, it flips from what you may consider economic, if you let it go, to a violent crime.

[00:20:38] And we started to see this already. I testified to this, that they become so brazen. The idea of lawlessness and not following the rule of law breeds more and more crime and breeds people coming in then with sticks, knives, guns. And basically, I've had this 19-year-old makeup counter girl who was so excited about becoming a makeup artist, but instead, she has to deal with people who come in to steal.

[00:21:08] And when she even looks at them, they act like, what are you looking at? You are in trouble for looking at me for ripping off what could be your raise for working there at minimum wage. And that upsets me. And so once you start to break it down, I think everyone understands. It's very clear. You just have to talk to someone on the ground who is suffering, who is not comfortable in their workplace because of what's going on.

[00:21:39] Bill: And you also have to think. This is not a victimless crime. And at the end of the day, you say, "They're taking laundry detergent. They sell it. What's the big deal?" But what do they do with that money? That money then goes to basically commit even greater crimes, crimes like human trafficking, like fentanyl, all these things that they would not have access to if they weren't able to do what they're doing in the stores and the communities where we live and work.

[00:22:09] Summer: Yeah, you're so right. You can't look at it in its own silo. It intersects with all of the other terrible crimes because you have a source of money now to buy guns, drugs, to sell them, to buy human beings and sell them. It all intersects. We can't allow lawlessness in our nation. We are a country that follows the rule of law. That's what we have to do.

[00:22:35] Bill: So local businesses have a role to play as well. They can stand back and say, "Do something." When businesses approach you, what do you tell them? How can they help you and not just how can you help them? What can they do?

[00:22:50] Summer: We absolutely rely on them. And one of the main things that we rely on them for is reporting. Because sometimes what I've noticed is businesses start to give up on reporting, because reporting takes time too. I really don't like when businesses decide that it's just not worth the time to do a report and they'll just bear the cost because the next business may not be able to bear that cost.

[00:23:19] Or if it continues and expands, you may not be able to bear the cost. So insisting on reporting, having training for your staff on what to do that's clear, documenting, updating your video cameras. Some stores I see have old video equipment. And video equipment doesn't cost a lot these days.

[00:23:43] So we can get better images. Better images of the person's face, better images of the cars that are getting away. So just update your technology so that it can help us prosecute these cases. Train your staff on what to do, what to document, and also focus on your most prolific problem, children that are coming in.

[00:24:10] And when you meet with your law enforcement prosecutors, maybe start with your list of five top offenders that keep coming in, hurting your business, so that we can work in a more organized, targeted manner with our businesses. But number one, don't give up on reporting. Get to know your local police station captain. Get to know your DA's office, and insist because it's your right, as a citizen, as a community member, to be safe. So insist on us doing our job.

[00:24:45] Bill: Yeah. And I know that businesses tear them apart because they have an obligation, not only just because of the product that's being stolen, the financial burden, but it's protecting their associates. It's protecting their customers. And it's maddening. And I think that they are incentivized to do whatever they need to do to try to combat this in a way that makes sense for the community and certainly for the people that work for them and shop their stores.

[00:25:12] So you have been in your position for quite some time. How has organized retail crime evolved through the years? Has technology played a role in that? How do you see that evolving even more?

[00:25:27] Summer: I definitely saw that it really expanded during, COVID, I would say. So I've been deputy District Attorney prosecutor for 28 years. I became the elected in 2018 and again in 2022 for my county. And it was during COVID that we began to see that. And we saw two things expand.

[00:25:49] One was the internet crimes against children, truly, because children were encouraged to go to their tablets and computers. That's exactly where NCMEC, the National Center for Missing Exploited Children, notice predators starting to go into the game rooms and everything to target our children by fourfold.

[00:26:11] And so I had to power up that section of my office. And then the other side was that people were shopping online. This gave the criminals an idea. Oh boy, I can go and steal and sell this stuff online, resell it. Once that happened, even after COVID went away, it still continued to grow because it was really gang members.

[00:26:38] It was people who said to themselves, "There's such, smaller consequences for me doing that. I can do that versus sell drugs and actually get a lot less time." And that's how it began to grow. So technology definitely had something to do with it, because it's very different to resell to a swap meet or to another store versus an anonymity of selling online.

[00:27:09] Of course, we had the Inform Act that helped with that. And that's another bill I supported where you're not as anonymous if you're selling over 5,000 online. So it was super important to have that because we need to be able to more do more tracking. But going after the front-line boosters is also very critical. And that's why California finally, after a big fight, changed our law there.

[00:27:38] Bill: Yeah. And congratulations on that. I know that was not easy to do. Summer, you spoke last year at NRF PROTECT, and this year we're right on the verge of another NRF PROTECT, June 23rd through the 25th in Dallas, Texas. When you spoke last year, there were some things that you wanted to focus on. Has much changed from last year to this year?

[00:28:02] Summer: Every year has changes, and I found it to be an incredible event. I was on a panel. I was also the keynote speaker. I did a couple of things there. The whole agenda looked up to date to me, things that really I would want our retailers to know today on the laws, on the fights, the advocacy fights, on the tools that they can use to advance their businesses.

[00:28:29] And I saw a lot of comradery and a lot of partnerships forming, forming with me and the other presenters. So I think these meetings, these in-person meetings are still really important in the human connection and empowering advocacy and the power of NRF bringing everybody together. So I loved it, and I know it's going to be another great conference this year.

[00:28:58] Bill: Yeah, it's a lot easier to go together than just to try to go it alone. So thank you. Summer Stephan, it has been such a pleasure talking with you. And I just want to say on behalf of all of my colleagues here at the National Retail Federation, and then I can say to our members across the country, retailers, large and small, thank you for taking the lead. Thank you for being an advocate, and thank you for recognizing this has such great implications for our industry. We can't really thank you enough for everything that you're doing.

[00:29:28] Summer: Thank you so much. It's an honor to work with NRF and with all of the heartbeat of America businesses out there. So we'll keep fighting for you.

[00:29:38] Bill: Yeah. And keep David Johnston honest. And thank you all for listening to another episode of Retail Gets Real. As a reminder, NRF PROTECT is being held this year, June 23rd through the 25th at the Gaylord Texan Resort. You can find more information about this top-tier industry gathering of retail leaders at nrf.com/protect. I'm Bill Thorne. This is Retail Gets Real. Thanks again for listening. Until next time.