Poshmark’s new take on secondhand retail

Episode transcript, edited for clarity

[00:00:19] Susan Reda: Welcome to Retail Gets Real, where we hear from retail's most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone, everywhere, every day. I'm Susan Reda from the National Retail Federation, and on today's episode, we're talking to Poshmark's chief marketing officer, Stephen Tristan Young. We're going to talk to Stephen about what he loves about marketing, about the Poshmark customer and about the importance of resale in retail.

Steven, welcome to Retail Gets Real.

[00:00:50] Steven Tristan Young: Thank you for having me. So excited to be here.

[00:00:52] Susan Reda: We're thrilled to have you. Great time of year to be talking to Poshmark. I want to start out by asking you a little about your career journey. I know you've been in the field for quite some time. You've been with other companies. So tell us a little bit about where it started and how you landed at Poshmark.

[00:01:11] Steven Tristan Young: Definitely. When I tell the story about how I ended up in marketing, it's always something that's fascinating because when I was in college, I actually went to school for economics at Wharton, and originally I actually wanted to be an environmental consultant. I had such passion about the environment and just helping to figure out how to solve the problems of the world, to save the world, and ended up realizing through my psychology classes that I actually had a passion for marketing because I like the creative element of it. I like the human psychology. I like the ability to also get people to do something that they were initially thinking about.

And so for me, just understanding that that was something that I innately wanted to do helped me down the path of really thinking about, after undergrad, what did I want to be when I grow up? Then, unlike a lot of my friends who went into banking, some went into consulting, I really wanted to go to industry. And specifically, I started my career working at Puma sports, which at that time was the number three footwear company in the U.S. behind Nike and Reebok.

Adidas hadn't even that much of a presence. But it really helped me understand even more about marketing, the role it plays in helping people love products, talk about the brand. And really since then, I've had the pleasure, honestly, of being able to work at so many different companies in so many different industries.

I would say I've done three different large consumer brands — American Express, DirecTV and Puma, but I've also helped build consumer tech brands such as Endurance, Grubhub and now Poshmark. And having been able to really straddle the two worlds of both tech and consumer marketing has been such a pleasure, because I often say that the things I learned at the big companies, I use a lot of the small companies and helping them to grow and become even bigger companies.

Being at Poshmark now for six years has allowed me to really take all of those learnings that I've built from working at those companies, and then helping Poshmark live through its growth stage over the last six years, from being a privately held company to being a public company to now being a private company again, and more importantly, helping to create this wonderful recommerce industry for sustainability and fashion.

And it was something I can tell you that I had not really thought I would ever be into because, I said, I've done fintech. I've done food delivery. I've done B2B small business hosting. I've done footwear. But to suddenly say, "I'm going to do fashion ecommerce," but really not just fashion ecommerce, I want sustainability, was a little bit of another left turn. But, for me, it's always been governed by the fact that, no matter what industry I'm in, no matter what company I'm in, I'm always thinking about the customer.

How do I market to that customer? How do I think about their needs? How do I think about the value that we're selling to them? And how I get them to not just adopt the product, but then eventually love the product. And that mindset governs also the fact that there are some brands that I probably will never work for.

God bless them. I love them, but there's some brands that I find really interesting. And if it's a brand that I'm passionate about because I use it, or it's something that I love, but other people don't love yet, those are the kinds of brands that attract me. I'm always in awe obviously of big brands like Starbucks and Disney.

But for me being able to shape a brand, grow a brand, and actually take it from, “I've never heard it before” to like, “Oh my God, I love this product,” it really gives me purpose in my work and makes me excited to do what I do every day.

[00:04:12] Susan Reda: Love it. I just love that. For so many of us, career journeys are very rarely linear. And yours is not. But the fact that you started studying environmental and now here you are at what you're calling a tech brand, I loved that phrase, and you have to lean into your sweet spot of environmental sustainability, I just think it was meant to be.

[00:04:38] Steven Tristan Young: It always comes full circle.

[00:04:39] Susan Reda: The arc is right there.

[00:04:41] Steven Tristan Young: The funny story I have on that to attach it is that I'm a child of immigrants. I moved here from the Philippines when I was 10 years old. And it's funny because in the Philippines, my family actually ran a restaurant business. And when I ended up at Grubhub, it took me until five years, I was like, "Oh my God. Wait, I'm actually in the same industry, but just slightly different."

It's almost like the things that you already were part of somehow pull you back in. And I always say just listening to those signals and following those signs sometimes is very difficult, but it requires a lot of thought and process, but everything old is new again. And I always embrace that because it means I'm almost coming home. It's a full-circle experience.

[00:05:17] Susan Reda: Well, who knew that your parents were preparing you to always understand the customer?

Let's talk about your customer. Who is the Poshmark customer, and in your six years with the company, how have you seen that customer base grow and shape?

[00:05:33] Steven Tristan Young: When I joined in 2018, we think about, just the world of sustainability and secondhand shopping. I would say it was probably a very, very nascent business. The total TAM, the total addressable market at the time, was probably around $25 billion U.S., and not even that much globally. But where we are now, six years later, that TAM is probably north of half a trillion dollars.

And there's really been an awareness of people buying secondhand, buying sustainably. And so being a part of this category and watching that grow has been really amazing. As far as how Poshmark has grown, we started with, probably when I joined, maybe around 60 million users, and now we're over 130 million users across the U.S. and Canada.

[00:06:13] Susan Reda: Say that again, 130 million customers. That's enormous. Congrats.

[00:06:19] Steven Tristan Young: And almost two in five people in America are in Poshmark. And the great thing is we represent the entire diversity of the U.S. We have users every state and every zip code, almost every demographic. What I would say is probably we started our brand with targeting a lot of millennials and then moving to Gen Zs.

And our goal was to really expand beyond those and be able to add boomers as well, and also Gen X. And I think as there's been an adoption of resale, we're reaching into those audiences in a really meaningful way. The analogy I often say is, if you think about in 2018, most people are like, "Oh, I wouldn't think about buying secondhand."

And I said, "Well, 10 years ago, you also didn't think about sleeping on someone's couch or riding someone else's car, but you probably use Uber and Airbnb a lot more than you used to." I said, "This is an industry that is growing and will only grow. You will be doing this even more in the future."

And I think what you found is that growth of secondhand as a category, both in terms of fashion, cars, electronics, as well as furniture has really grown, where people realize, I don't have to buy full price. I can buy gently worn, preloved, slightly used, and it doesn't take away from the fact it's still a great product. And at the end you feel like you're a really smart shopper.

[00:07:32] Susan Reda: Absolutely. Tell us a little bit about where it begins. So somebody says, "You know what? I've got items in my closet that I think I'd like to sell." How do they do this? And I know that's a big question, but if you boil it down, how does somebody begin selling on Poshmark? And as somebody who's interested in purchasing resale items, can you just hop on and start making it happen?

[00:07:56] Steven Tristan Young: Let me answer the first one first. The big thing that I think Poshmark is in really well is figure out how to make selling as easy as possible. And so whereas before, probably in other platforms, you have to take a photo, you have to upload it into your web page, etc., what we do is we allow you to basically start selling straight from your phone.

You take a photo of an item, you make a slight modification. We help you prefill all the items, and suddenly you have a closet set up on Poshmark. And all you have to do is basically share that closet to other people on the platform or have other people like your item and soon enough the product is usually sold.

So listing has been something that we have really focused on, making it as simple, as easy as possible, because the selling is then how the magic of the platform happens. And so for us, expanding on that listing experience and making it even better is part of our future journey. And for those people who don't want to take a camera and list, is there an opportunity?

So we're working through that right now. As a buyer, I would say it's an even easier experience, whether you find us through Google Shopping, or you find us on the app, or you find us on just poshmark.com, literally, it so easy to just find an item you're looking for, drop into search, and be able to see, oh, here are a number of items.

And what's amazing is, so many people are always shocked to find that whatever they're looking for is likely on Poshmark. Example is, say you have a favorite pair of Celine glasses that you broke, or you lost and the company's no longer selling it. You literally type in at Poshmark, you'll probably find that item.

I hear so many stories from my friends who are often like, "Oh my God, I found my favorite pair of jeans in Poshmark. I thought I would never find it again. And you guys have it." So what's great is that our whole thing is about creating these closets and getting your closet online. But by connecting all of these closets around the country, we're helping you basically create the biggest mall possible, which is shopping through other people's closets and being able to find the thing that you never thought you could find again.

[00:09:42] Susan Reda: I've spent a career asking retailers, how many SKUs do you have? You have no idea how many SKUs you have?

[00:09:49] Steven Tristan Young: Yeah, no. I tried to do this one outdoor ad once at a mall, and the ad was going to literally say, "You could have this entire mall in your pocket. Just download the Poshmark app now." Obviously, the mall didn't appreciate that, so it killed it. But if you think about it, the idea is really logical. The entire mall is in your pocket. Why would you need to go shop offline when you can look at everything online and buy it at like 60, 70, 80% off retail price?

[00:10:13] Susan Reda: So as I'm learning more about Poshmark, there are so many strategies and channels that you use to reach customers. Share a few of the things that have really resonated with your sellers and buyers.

[00:10:26] Steven Tristan Young: We use the full stack. I think what's really wonderful is that we started as a digital company, mobile-based, but we also have a web presence, and we've also got an offline presence. So the team has experimented with everything from online affiliate, Google Shopping, Meta, all the way to TV advertising, direct mail, et cetera.

So we focus on the full stack. And the reason why is because we want to make sure that we are reaching people where they prefer to see us or to find us. We're not just digital only. We're not just offline only. I think being able to merge the two together and being able to use proper measurement techniques to see its effectiveness on the ROI has really been one of the most amazing things about this job, is that we have so much data, almost sometimes too much data.

But it allows us to really understand which channels work, which ones don't, which channels also work well together. I found in my experience that some companies are like, "Oh, I only want to do Meta," and ignore all the offline channels. And they are really missing a whole audience because a lot of people do find brands through outdoor ads, through television ads, radio ads.

So really thinking through those different channels and figure out how they work together has been the vision that I've set for the team when I joined. And I said that there is no one channel that rules them all. All the channels work together. And the hard part is figuring out how to make it work together, and that's the hard nut to crack.

[00:11:39] Susan Reda: Right. So let's talk about live selling a little bit, because I know that it's not new new for Poshmark, but it's relatively new, and I know that you've seen a really nice build because of it. So how long did it take to put that in place, and how's it going?

[00:11:57] Steven Tristan Young: I'm so excited to talk about this because it's something that I think the U.S. as a country understands, but it's not quite at the level of adoption, say, where it's at in China, where it's a multi-trillion industry. Here in the U.S., I think we're one of the leaders that have basically launched in the last three years.

We piloted and built this product in 2022, officially launched it in 2023. And since then it's grown to over — I would say we probably aired over a billion minutes’ worth of live shopping content. Fundamentally, live shopping is the next evolution of Poshmark. The first phase was being able to list an item on the web or app.

The second phase now is having someone explain to you why you should buy this product, why this shoe fits well, what this shoe goes well with, what these bags feel like on the inside and outside. And for anyone who was maybe gun shy to buy because they weren't sure what it looked like from the photos, the live shopping experience makes selling come to life and also allows a seller to connect with the buyer in a much more meaningful way. Not just the fact that it's an auction model.

So there's an element of joy when you realize you won the auction, you won that item, but really the ability for sellers to sell items and describe it actually drives buyers to want to buy more. And I almost think that this is the next evolution of how shopping exists in the U.S. and how people used to buy online, now people who buy through live shopping.

And for us, that social component of live selling is what really makes it work, because for other businesses, starting to sell a live business is very difficult because either a, you've got to find the audience, or b, you've got to find the host. Here, we already have this social network of sellers and buyers that follow each other, that comment with each other, build relationships.

So creating that show element was a natural extension. And I would say that it continues to grow double-digit. And our hope is that obviously in the next three to four years, as live selling as an industry grows here in the U.S., we being one of the leaders in there, helps continue to open up this path for everyone to experience it. Because I will say, it's a form of entertainment. It's a form of shopping. It's a form of live connecting. And really the pandemic helped people become more comfortable being in front of a camera. So this is that natural extension and evolution.

[00:14:02] Susan Reda: It's so funny to me, as someone who's been in the industry for so many years, we used to talk about the two people that talked over the fence about what they bought and how much they liked it. And that was the beginning of that live selling. “I just bought this pair of shoes. Oh my God. They're so comfortable. You would love them. I see you walking all the time.” And boom, the sale happens. Now you're doing it in front of a Ring camera, but it's working.

[00:14:27] Steven Tristan Young: But imagine also, say when you were at the mall, when there were actually salesclerks on the floor that would help or the private shopper that would —

[00:14:35] Susan Reda: I remember when.

[00:14:37] Steven Tristan Young: Yeah. Those were all great experiences, and that's what brought people in. But now when you go to a mall and you're having to find things yourself and you're hoping to find someone to help you get the right size, you're not even focused on what the experience of the product is. You're just like, can I get the right size, and where do I pay? Whereas I think live shopping brings that now in the comfort of your own home and wherever you're at.

[00:14:57] Susan Reda: So I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about AI because it's the most talked about bubbling up trend. What I generally hear is that we're dabbling in it. It's working. We're going to see where it goes. But how are you using AI, and what's your vision of it for the future?

[00:15:13] Steven Tristan Young: I would say that's 2024's topic at almost every conference I've gone to.

[00:15:19] Susan Reda: Yes. Topic du jour.

[00:15:20] Steven Tristan Young: I'll address them two ways. So one, within how we use AI within marketing has been an initiative that I've been pushing with the team for the last six to eight months and really embracing the fact that AI is supposed to assist people do better work, not necessarily replace their work.

And I think once you give that psychological safety around the assist and not the replace, it makes, especially, a lot of your employees a lot more willing to say, "Hey, let's try things out." And for our team meetings, we have other team members showcase how they use AI. Because I would say, for those people who are in high school and college, AI is native to them.

They're using it every day in their school. For someone that is working and has a certain way of doing things, AI becomes another thing I have to learn. So really showing people like, how do we use it as part of our daily work? But at the end, also, AI right now is helping us create more content. It's helping us do more versions.

It's helping us automate things, but it's not replacing people's work. Fundamentally, creativity, integrated marketing and project management still has to happen through human interaction and touch. So I think, for my team, just being able to adopt it and embrace it is the goal. Whether or not it actually drives revenue, I think we are still several quarters away from that.

As a company, we have invested a lot in AI. I don't want to talk about all the things that are coming up, but I will say that we have an ML AI team that has been doing a ton of work on helping us understand how to make our product better, how to make it more predictive, how to make it easier for our sellers to list and sell their items.

A number of features will be coming out in the next year. We've been incubating those in the last year. And I think for us, it's really making sure that we invest the time to create AI tools that are actually helpful, not just cumbersome, but also ones that will help the selling and listing experience be even better than it is today.

[00:17:01] Susan Reda: That's fabulous. That's exactly how it should be used, to drive efficiency and boost sales, bottom line. Let's talk about the upcoming holiday season. We're so close. Sustainable gifting is a real thing. Tell me a little bit about the trends that you're seeing for this coming holiday season across a few of the categories, men's, women's, electronics. What are some of the hot trends you're seeing and brands that are bubbling up?

[00:17:27] Steven Tristan Young: Let me talk about our Poshmark holiday, if that's OK. Because I think for us, to your point, sustainable gifting has become super, super hot. I would say we try to push this probably, actually, even in 2020 when people were stuck at home. I think at the time we worked with Snapchat and a lot of creative pushing, sustainable gifting, but I do think that it's taken a couple of years to get to where it's at the point where this is our third year doing what we call Secondhand Sunday. And Secondhand Sunday is our way of empowering sellers to sell secondhand on the Sunday right after Thanksgiving.

Our goal is to make this become the next Small Business Saturday and really shine a light on the fact that there are sellers on Poshmark who sell on that day who also support themselves and make money, that there's a better option than just buying brand new, and there's a more sustainable and more cost effective way of doing it.

Obviously, there's a lot of deals. So during that weekend, can you buy something that's awesome? Can you buy something that's sustainable, but also buy something that's a deal? We offer all three of those. And for us, our goal this year is to really get people to think, hey, instead of buying something brand new, why don't you buy something 50% off, also brand new?

Because one thing people don't realize, almost 60, 70% of the items on Poshmark are new with tags. It's like literally everyone who's ever bought something and it's still stuck in their closet, those are the things a lot of people end up listing on Poshmark. So it's completely brand new. It's not even worn. And those are great things to basically gift.

And so for us, really pushing sustainable gifting. We've got a trend report. We've got a gift guide. We have live shows happening also on that week and that day to get people to want to buy and really shop sustainably for themselves, but also to gift it.

And I think taking away the shame around buying a secondhand item for someone that you love, that's our goal, is to make sure that we take that stigma and shame away because it shouldn't have any shame at all, especially when it usually it's a new-with-tag item. Because what everyone wants to feel is smart about their purchase, feel good about their contribution to the environment at the end, and also feel good and look good.

As far as other trends that we're seeing merchandise-wise, more recently, obviously what's really big, and you can see me wearing this vest right now, it's a British countryside aesthetic. It's barn codes. Those searches have been up in Poshmark over 147% year over year, suede boots, horse-themed sweaters, brown suede jackets, a little bit of just like that British countryside feel. We're also seeing a lot of personalized accessories. Gen Z loves adding charms and key chains to their bags.

I think you've seen those little tiny bags on some of the TikTok videos being attached to their big bags. This element of personalization allows people to feel that they have an identity and they're also unique, so they're not like everyone else. With men's, what we've seen is a little bit more men wanting to have more bold fashion statements and big chunky shoes, obviously wide leg pants.

High-end hoodies are trending. Chrome Hearts, this brand has increased over 114% on Poshmark as well as obviously Balenciaga. So we have a whole trend set we can share with you, but these are some things I'm seeing on here. But I will say that I think on the overall, electronics, home goods, sneakers, I think people are being more mindful of shopping this year, especially given the economic headwinds that people have experienced.

People still want to feel good after this year that also has — every time it's like, it's been a year. We all want to feel good during the new year, but we also don't want to break the bank because we still know that things are expensive. So our hope is that people really experience Poshmark even more this year than others. And like I said, we love our category to grow. So whether it's us or our competitors, we know that if we all grow, the boat is growing, and everyone's feeling it.

And I think sustainable gifting, the more that we all have a say in it and being able to point to Secondhand Sunday allows people to feel like this is a path for in the future that it'd be great to say, yes, I'm willing to go to the mall and brave the crowds, but I'm also happy to just shop online at the Poshmark or buy on live shopping and find a great deal and at the end feel smart about the purchase, but also feel good.

[00:21:16] Susan Reda: Yeah. OK.

[00:21:17] Steven Tristan Young: I will say, whenever you shop somewhere else, you feel smart about what you bought, but you don't always feel good about why you bought it.

[00:21:24] Susan Reda: One of the interesting things that I noticed you're doing, I read about a recent partnership with Coach and work toward a digital product passport. As someone who's watched the recommerce space evolve, I think that's a really important component because NFC — near field communication, I shouldn't just assume everybody knows what that is — but authenticating product is super important. We want to give a gift that we know is authentic. We don't want to feel that we made a purchase and then have that walk back feeling of, ugh, but I was duped. So tell our listeners a little bit about what NFC means for you and how that partnership with Coach is working.

[00:22:08] Steven Tristan Young: We just recently launched that probably within the last month and a half, so we're still in the early stage, but we are so excited by that partnership. To your point, one, because we're able to actually help create the listing experience to be even more seamless because by just literally scanning the QR code, all of the product information immediately transfers into a listing created for you on Poshmark.

So instead of you typing in the color, et cetera, all that just floats in. We believe that that experience, which is more seamless, more integrated, and more predictive, and more, honestly, a delight, is the kind of experience that people are going to want in all their secondhand marketplaces moving forward.

So being able to pilot that with a brand like with Coach was fantastic for us and allows us to think through like, how else do we do this with others? I know that being able to track the sustainability path of your product is really big in Europe and is coming to the U.S., so being able to pilot this now helps us also prepare for the future.

And I do think that people are more keenly aware of, what is the cost of their fast fashion? What is the cost of things they're buying? And being able to also track where it's coming from, I guess it helps you feel not just smart about saving money, but also feel good about what you just did.

[00:23:14] Susan Reda: Right. I know that the word blockchain got blacklisted a few years back, but it's coming back, and it's an important component in resale and recommerce because it does help. You know, “OK, I know where it came from. I trust this.” I just want to switch gears a little bit because you've had experience leading so many teams. What are some of the lessons you've learned along the way about leadership?

[00:23:38] Steven Tristan Young: So there's two that I'll share with you. I think one thing I often tell people is that as you go through your career, your relationship with your leaders, honestly drives so much of your success, not just your long-term success, short-term, but also just your day-to-day mood.

If you work for a crappy leader, your day's bad. Your week's bad. Work for a great leader, you're inspired. You want to do more. And this is the phrase I came up with because I have had great bosses, and I've also had bad bosses. And I kept thinking like, well, what's the good and the bad in both?

I often said I learned management from my worst bosses, and I learned leadership from my best bosses. And if you think of it from that framework, it makes even the worst experience a learning experience. And I tell people working for someone that you don't get along with or that you think is a terrible manager is just as valuable as working for someone who inspires you and wants you to do more.

And you need to just write down what those learnings are because that is what then drives you to become a better version of yourself one day. Because I'll say, the things that I learned from my managers I didn't get along with are the things that I probably still remember.

When I need to inspire and lead people, the best leaders remind me about the things that they did that made me feel seen, that made me feel included, that made me feel validated, so that's one important lesson. And the second one I would say is, and this drives a lot of how people make decisions on their careers, people often follow logos and say, "I want to work for XYZ company." But I often say, "There comes a time in your career when you've got to follow leaders over logos, and it's up to you to decide when that is."

I think early in your career working for big logo companies are great. It gives brand recognition. It's like a betting system. But at some point you have to realize there's enough logos. You got to follow leaders because leaders also help determine what your future path is and also open doors for you, but also helps you understand how to drive your next 10 to 20 years of your career.

And it's an important distinction because most people believe that, I should just work for a company, and that'll take care of me. It's like, no, you got to take care of yourself, but leaders take care of other people. And finding the right kinds of leaders to take care of you really can set your path on an accelerated trajectory. And that's often something that I think people underestimate.

[00:25:40] Susan Reda: I think that's amazing advice and a great way for us to close out. Steven, it has been an absolute pleasure talking to you. I thank you for joining us today.

[00:25:50] Steven Tristan Young: Thank you so much, again, for having me in. Have a great holiday season. Looking forward to working again in the future.

[00:25:54] Susan Reda: Great. Thank you for listening to another episode of Retail Gets Real. You can find more information about this episode at retail gets real dot com. I'm Susan Reda. This is Retail Gets Real. Thanks for listening.